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Gumballs & Dungeons Wikia

moved from the comment section of chaos abyss. and my Message Wall from Oct 2019. you don't need to read just posting that here for posterity.

before you start reading know that category on this page would refer to a part of or all of the contents and ToC means Table of Content.

what I want to address here is that there is no consensus on the order of the table of contents on the maze pages and there are no guidelines showing an example on how they should go the thing I found that has any relation to the maze is this found here and here  as well as here e.g.showen below

Mazes
Adventurer's Forest, Ancient Arena, Avalon Fortress, Bloody Fortress, Borderland, Bracada College, Card Wonderland, Chaos Abyss, City of Oblivion, City of Steam, Cloud Island, Desert Oasis, District 91, Dracula's Castle, Dragon Valley, Eden's Land, Erathia, Forest of Whispers, Gods' Chessboard, Hell Frontier, Hero's Village, Land of Comet Crash, Lost Temple, Martial Art Island, Pirate's Port, Promised Land of Forging, Saint's Tower, Sdorica, Skeleton Island, Spacecraft Ruins, Temple of Mars, Wonderland of Nature
Maze Page Guideline
File:Maze Page Guideline.png
Type Unknown
Source/Unlock Unknown
Normal reward Unknown
Raid boost N/A
Raid reward Unknown






as the first 2 are currently indistinguishable from each other and Thriefty believes this one here is the one in use we will continue with it. 

Proposal[]

this would show how ideally the basic page layout would be. ideally all the content bellow would be listed in the ToC in this order on maze pages.

Hidden Gumball[]

this tells you how to obtain the maze's hidden gumball should contain a picture of it 

Enemies[]

Usual Enemies[]

this section should contain all the information about that mazes monsters in Template: Monster General  or Template: Monster General C[Notes 1]



Enemy Skill Other info
monsters name


monsters type[Notes 2]image of the monster

monsters skills like drops


under the monster table, there should be a link to the maze name/Specific subpage.e.g.

To see more title or gumball-specific monster information, look at Maze Name/Specific.

there you will find including but not limited to gumball specific effects on the monsters [Comments 1] 

Special Enemies[]

(Only included if there are enough to justify a separate table for it. Otherwise, merged with Usual Enemies)

Every so often there is a third or even more option which are enemies that are limited to a certain section of the maze. this set up is good and I don't want to change it. This uses "Template:Monster General C", which generates a collapsed table.

Boss (Name of Boss)[]

this section shows all the information about the mazes boss sometimes this section would contain 2 boss information like City of Steam. its format is similar to Usual Enemies however doesn't use its template instead it uses a table like this with some slight variation depending on the maze. Stat info should stop at F100.

Name of Boss Boss Class
Floor Attack HP Physical
Resistance [Comments 2]
Spell
Resistance
30-100

it would also have the image of the boss to the right of the table and the bosses skills listed under it

Boss Minions
There would also be info of any Boss Minions, if there are any. [Comments 3]

Special Boss versions (via Divine Dragon wishes) may be included if they are significantly different, but would be in a collapsed div.[Comments 4]

Allies[]

(Only included if there are enough to justify a separate table for it. Otherwise, merged with linked Maze Occurrences, or not included at all) On some pages it will also list maze specific allies under the name Allies like here BorderlandGods' Chessboard and Hell Frontier. a good example for how it should look is Hell Frontier

Maze Mechanics[]

Once was called Special Maze Mechanics now called Maze Mechanics 

this category refers to a part of the maze that will be a constant in the maze and have a major effect on gameplay the category can have anywhere from none to multiple maze mechanics that need to be listed here. 

this is fine as is just make sure that all information listed here has its own subcategory as they are important and need to be known. if it's misplaced it will screw up other sections.

Examples of important maze mechanics include: Engineering Manuals in Avalon Fortress, Legendary Artifacts in Dracula's Castle, Elemental Altar in Lost Temple, Etc. [Comments 5]

Maze Occurrences[]

Once was called Special Occurrences now call Maze Occurrences this category refers to the content in the maze that you can find on the floors of the maze most content in this section is minor but important information that needs its own subcategories to navigate but should be limited in the extent that it can cover.

Various Occurrences(Table)[]

this section should contain all the small information about things found in the maze that isn't monster or corpses and can only be found in that maze like Adventurer's Forest.

Item[Notes 2] description Result

name of item image of item

a description of the item when selected what item does

for mazes like Chaos Abyss you can use a table like this

Item[Notes 2] Green/Blue level Green/Blue Quotes Yellow/Red level Yellow/Red Quotes

name of item image of item

what item does small quote[Notes 3] what item does a description of the item when selected[Notes 3]

another option is to split the cell and included the quote in the same cell as the building information. e.g.

Item[Notes 2] Green/Blue level quote Yellow/Red level quote
name of item image of item what item does what item does
small quote
[Notes 3]
small quote
[Notes 3]

There are some small exceptions like Elemental Altars which is a key piece in Lost Temple but a minor role in other mazes [Comments 6]

Various Occurrence (Non-Table)[]

Name of Occurrence[Comments 7]

"Description when interacting with maze occurrence"

This is the format for most pages. This should contain all key information or information that is too large to contain in just table format. [Comments 8]

Corpses[]

not all corpses are actually corpses. corpses are things that are affected by Farplane Ranger.

this section should contain all the corpses information in a table like this 

Corpses Regular loot Farplane Ranger Loot
image of corpses and its name name of loot with a link to it  name of the soul with link and info of its effect

Loot[]

this category refers to the content in the maze that you can pick up and put in your bag or take out of the maze it also covers stuff that only some gumballs can acquire most content in this section is minor but important information that needs its own subcategories to navigate

Out of Maze Loot[]

all the stuff you can acquire in the map and take out with you this does not include potion formula but can contain special maze specific rewards 

Title specific loots[]

tells you about the stuff you can get with titles usually just GoT and  Farplane Ranger but might contain others idk [Comments 9]

Other specific loots[]

link to maze name/specific gumball loot subsection 

Tips[]

any tips to follow when playing that maze

Quest/DP[]

list of quests to complete to unlock raid mode for that maze looks like this. should also should have the mazes information about Boss Package listed in-between Quest/DP and the table

Description DP Notes
G task ? out of 80 tips

the G above means you need endless mode to complete the quest.  An S instead would mean I could be completed in story mode don't ask me why its S and G and not something else like S and M (LoL) IDK.

To Unlock[]

this will tell you how to unlock the maze not all maze pages will have it as half the mazes sill open up automatic this section is necessary because of mazes City of Steam which has complicated and annoying unlock methods.

Story Mode[]

use to be called story quest but was should be changed because endless mode is called endless mode. some times found in two sections call potion formula and stages should be combined and merged into story mode with a commen loose pease of info usually found at the very top of a mazes page saying something like unlock maze gumball after complete story mode.


Info that should be in Story Mode section:

  • Story Quest name
  • Vigour required
  • Important loot (Potion formula, gem, Maze gumball, etc)

Notes[]

this section is the hub for all the ref you should set it up like this <reference group=notes.></ref> so you can avoid creating problems if someone wants to make another reference group but is too lazy to make a group.it will protect you references

External links[]

links to any videos or external pages pertaining to the maze.

controversy []

Thriefty wants to unlock and story mode near the top stating 

I'd like to keep it up high, but short, for those newcomers who are trying to figure out how to get certain new mazes.

Edit: Been thinking if we can throw this into a Subsection called One-time events. Then, we can put stuff like Potion formulas, Story mode and other one-time events there too.

and

I personally would like Story Quest be near the top, but be very short. Same for To Unlock.

I ATCkit  disagree because I feel it's better to keep them down and out of the way as they have no lasting value and will still be available to new users.

please state you opinion guys lets a consensus here

Precedent[]

the precedent set Oct. 24, 2019, so if you're curious about something referenced down below or up above make sure that you look at the page history version of it. on almost every page it would say something like "Complete story mode to get the maze pacific gumball".this should be moved to Story Quest.

I found that most of the pages had the last 7 content as 

  1. Out-of-Maze Loot
  2. Title specific loots
  3. Other specific loots
  4. Tips
  5. Quest/DP
  6. Notes
  7. External links

with either notes, external links, and/or Other specific loots missing on some pages as they were not relevant or in the case of other specific loots it is missing and should be added as it provides valuable information on gumball pacific loot. there use to be some pages that had Quest/DP right at the top of the page but I moved them down to be congruent with the above order but what was different was there was a sub-content with those showing the reward for completing the Boss Package quest under the Quest/DP so what I did was removed the content subsection and moved it right under the quest/DP link like so

Quests / DP[]

Kill level 100 boss for one time Boss Package worth 20x Cyclops Gumball Fragment and 20x Dragon's Rib.

Description DP Notes

with this, you can decongest the ToC a bit. the thing is only half the maze pages have this information somewhere on its page and I don't know if I should add them all like above or remove them. personally I would add them as they would only take one sentence and provide valuable information to new players

moving on there's another common category on the ToC called Story Quest (e.g. Chaos Abyss)  or Stages and Potions Formulas (e.g. City of Steam) that tells you about the quests available before endless mode.and what potions you can get from the maze. the thing is it is always found right near the top-middle of the content page and it doesn't provide any valuable information as those quests aren't replayable. I honestly don't know if they should even be kept on the maze page. wether to remove them or not is up to you but whether they stay or go they have to be moved down near the bottom as they take away from the information that matters.

moving on to another common category on the ToC called To Unlock it is usually found at the very top of the ToC.

the thing is this is already partially addressed with the Maze Template so I don't know what to do with it. it also does take away from the ToC so at the very least move it down.

another common content I would like to discuss is the Hidden Gumball I personally like where it is and think it's fine but that's because on every run I take I am to get it if that wasn't the case I think it would just be a hindrance. what do you think? 

What I would suggest is have them set up like so or some variation thereof.

  1. Tips
  2. Quest/DP
  3. Notes
  4. Story Quest
  5. To Unlock
  6. External links

Going on to the 3 major content categories we have the 

  1. Enemies
  2. Special Maze Mechanics (sometimes listed as Features)
  3. Special Occurrences

Always in that order


1 Enemies.

it is usually reduced to just 2 subcategories First is usually enemies and second is boss but every so often there is a third or even more option which are enemies that are limited to a certain section of the maze. this set up is good and I don't want to change it. on some pages it will also list maze specific allies under the name Allies like here BorderlandGods' Chessboard and Hell Frontier.

2 Special Maze Mechanics.

this category refers to a part of the maze that will be a constant in the maze and have a major effect on gameplay the category can have anywhere from non to multiple maze mechanics that need to be listed here 

this is fine as is just make sure that all information listed here has its own subcategory as they are important and need to be known. if it's missplaced it will fuck up other sections 

3 Special Occurrences

this category refers to the content in the maze that you can find on the floors of the maze most content in this section is minor but important information that needs its own subcategories to navigate but should be limited in the extent that it can cover.

for instants the maze Adventurer's Forest has 2 subcategories it looks like this 

1. Special Occurrences

  1. Various Occurrences
  2. Corpses

we can just focus on Various Occurrences as Corpses already has the practics 

with various occurrences where you tie up all the minor information into this subsection rather than here Bloody Fortress 

  1. Special Occurrences
    1. Various
      1. Discarded Bookshelf
      2. Statues
      3. Demon Bazaar
      4. Bloody Furnace
      5. Spell Forbidden Prison
      6. Bloody Trap
      7. Abandoned Truck
      8. Succubus Hut
      9. Abandoned Cauldron (1x)
    2. Corpses
  2. Faith Rewards
    1. Equipment Suits

if it wasn't for the fact that Statues is key information that needs to know and should be listed under Special Maze Mechanics with faith rewards and Equipment Suits this ToC would look something like this

  1. Special Maze Mechanics
    1. Faith Rewards
    2. Equipment Suits
    3. Statues
  2. Special Occurrences
    1. Various Occurrences
    2. Corpses

last but not least I want to talk about the loot section traditionally it looks like this 

  1. Out of Maze Loot
  2. Title specific loots

but more recently there is a new version that I like better it looks like this (Gumball Specific Loots also know as Gumball Specific information)

  1. Loots
    1. Out of Maze Loot
    2. Title specific loots
    3. Gumball Specific Loots

Gumball Specific Loots will bring you to a sub-page with all the small ways gumballs powers affect the maze.


Notes and Comments[]

  1. the reason why we don't use Template: Monster Specific here is because we want to limit the amount of irrelevant information there is on the main page as most information in that template is specific to a Gumball or Title
  2. 2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 Keep the name of the item/monster First so when you put the pic and a name in the same cell the sorting table works properly also bold the name for cuz it looks nice
  3. 3.0 3.1 3.2 3.3 when making a quote use Template:Smallquote so from a glance it's apparent its a quote and it wouldn't take up much space.
  1. Phoxtrot: Do we make the boss and his eventual minions visible here ? I would say yes. If not, we have to find a proper place to put the race of the boss and his minions in the boss section.

    Thriefty: I could... but my issue is that there would be repetition for the skills and the drops. I don't want to put too much detail here, but some bosses, like Astana's Projection in Saint's Tower, need space for their skill description. Some bosses may also have multiple forms, like Wonderland Dragon and its Heart in Card Wonderland and the transition between the two is sort of difficult to explain in chart form.

    Phoxtrot: I wasn't clear enough. I meant also visible here but with just the name, picture, race and eventually a "See #Boss" or something like that. Like it usually was before the template. It's just that currently, some mazes do not mention the race of the boss on the main page.

    Thriefty: Ooh, that can be easily done. I can make the change.

    ATCkit: Phoxtrot there was a reason that we removed the boss from the Usual Enemies list. around the middle of September of 2019, Thriefty was making the Maze Name/Specific subpage and when he moved the Stealing List over to that page all the information left there was already listed in the #Boss section.  you can see that with Adventurer's Forest from Spt.5-15 and Borderland Spt. 12-15 changelog he capped off his edits by introducing the subheader Usual Enemies. if what's bothering you is that the race of the boss is missing we could just make a rule like add that information in the boss's image caption or at the very start of the boss section but I don't agree with adding the boss back to the Usual Enemies list.   

    Thriefty: Hmm, basically, we just need the info of Boss Race somewhere on the page. Take a look at the #Boss subsection below, I have added info on Boss Race and some stats above the stats table. Hopefully, this is clean and simple enough to implement on all pages.
  2. Thriefty: Shall we agree to standardise all Physical and Spell Resistance terms to "Physical Resistance", "Spell Resistance"? There are too many shortforms in the different maze pages. I won't mind having "Physical and Spell Resistance" when both values are the same for each boss floor.

    Phoxtrot: I don't like Dodge and Accuracy in the table unless they actually vary with floor and we should not display them at all if they are standard. Probably likewise for timer: in the table only if it varies. For resistances, Yeah "Physical Resistance" or more likely "Physical <br />Resistance" to keep the column narrow.

    Thriefty: Okay, Dodge and Accuracy removed, since they are always 0% and 100% respectively.

    Thriefty: I have been playing with the Boss Templates (or guidelines) again, would like if I can get some feedback on User:Thriefty/Test Boss Template#Boss Template #4.
  3. Thriefty: Above is the current format I am using for Boss Minions now.
  4. Phoxtrot: I have recently come to realize that the BOSS spawned by the Divine Dragon Wishes is often significantly different. Typically: no minions, no transfer etc.. The HP and Attack is sometimes similar (same formula but applied to an intermediate level) and sometimes not. And the steals and photos and souls can be similar or simplified (like just EP) or maybe just not there... So we should have a place for that in the main page and possibly also in the special monsters of the /specific page for the different steals etc (though that might be an overkill). See what I did tentatively in Card Wonderland
    Thriefty: Oh wow, I never realised it could be that different. I think tentatively, we should keep your current format, and only have this info for bosses that are significantly different. And maybe have the info duplicated into Divine Dragon Wishes page?
  5. Phoxtrot: Maze mechanics can be big. And sometimes we should push some or most of it to a subpage for more flexibility. This allows to use 2nd and 3rd level headers in the subpage and reduces the need for collapsed tables. This makes particularly sense when it is information that you wouldn't need to refer to often or at all once you understand the maze.
    As it is, I believe that parts of Card Wonderland mechanics should probably be moved to a subpage (note: Template:Maze allows for a custom links to be added there).
    I think that pages like Resonance Record or Engineering Manual (Erathia) should be moved to a subpage of the related maze (with a redirect left behind): this helps suggest the relevant pages when you type in the name of the maze in the search window and also gives a "up" link to the main page through wikia standard mechanisms.
    Thriefty: Hmm, I am fine with things like Engineering Manuals being pushed to sub pages, since it's not something we need to keep referring to. However, for Card Wonderland, I'd personally keep Monster Quests in the main page, and push card info into the subpage. I'd personally go by this rule: If I need to keep referring to it, it should be in the main page. Otherwise, subpage.
  6. Thriefty: I personally don't know if I want a Table format. Adventurer's Forest looks nice cause the events aren't complex, but just look at Chaos Abyss. It would be a nightmare to put a Table format. Also, there are lots of smallquotes with description of maze occurrences (See Cloud Island) which doesn't fit well in a Table format like in Adventurer's Forest
    ATCkit since you have mentioned it I thought I might as well try and see if I could make a table format that could work with Chaos Abyss I'm awaiting your take on it also Chaos Abyss is non conventional just like Card Wonderland's monster quests which sould get their own table because they can fit into a new subcategory under maze occurrences the only difference is that because the maze mechanic affects the Various occurrences in Chaos Abyss they need a custom table made. 

    Thriefty: The table format wouldn't work as some Maze Occurrences in Chaos Abyss have different Sanity triggers. For example, Chaotic Altar has 3 different possible effects at Blue to Green sanity, Yellow Sanity and Red Sanity. Torture Device has 2 different possible effects at Blue to Yellow Sanity and Red Sanity. Abyss Furnace has 2 different possible effects at Blue to Green Sanity and Yellow to Red Sanity. Trying to force it into a table format would be a crazy amount of headache with colspans. Furthermore, there is too much info that wouldn't fit well into a table format. Table format works best when the info in each cell is limited. Info on descriptions and effects of Maze Occurrences tend to be long and complex in later mazes, which makes Table format hard to do. I do believe Card Wonderland Monster Quests can be in table format, if you are willing to remove all the smallquotes. Personally, I feel that the current Card Wonderland Monster Quest format looks okay.
  7. Thriefty: I guess since part of the issue is to declutter Table of Contents, each Maze Occurrences should not be a subheader. Should we just bold the name?
    ATCkit: I totally agree with this proposal however I still personally would like to have it in collapsible table formate but if people want it to be set like this I would advise it to be set up like that only difference from what you're saying is key maze occurrences should have a subheader

    Phoxtrot: For me this is where we had to do what works best for each maze and damn the uniformity. Once I'm in the maze, I will mostly refer to the page to remember which option to choose for various non-trivial occurrences. As such, I like to have them in the ToC. Having headers also mean that you can refer to them with anchor links like #Allies without having to define an anchor explicitly via a <div name=...>. Sometimes sub-tables are great (like for the casting furnace in Gods' Chessboard) and sometimes less so.
    As a side note, when we use many 3rd level headers, I think we should also use underline because otherwise the beginning and end of paragraphs can be hard to see like in Lost Temple.

    Thriefty: I think underlining maze occurrences is good. Right now, re: Underline, bold, italicise, format seems to be
    Bold: Monster name , Skill name
    Italise: Monster Class , Buff/debuff, Chaos Drive
    Underline: Maze Occurrence
  8. Thriefty: Since Corpses have its own guidelines, thinking if Maze shops and Maze Caves should have their own guidelines
    ATCkit: I disagree maze caves will aread have a section under enemies if their monster are different from the ones outside and so the only information that would be listed there would likely be information that doesn't need to be linked to with a # like maze#cave same deal with maze shops and content worth mentioning that can be bought from there can just have something like found in mazename shop
    Thriefty: Okay, will follow Adventurer Forest format then
  9. Thriefty: Farplane Ranger bonuses are all already in corpses. I am thinking that maybe we should put Great God of Thieves bonuses into the maze cave section and remove this entirely.

    ATCkit i agree if you look at boars lair in Adventurer's_Forest you will see this already

    Phoxtrot Problem with GoT is that maze specific info is usually small but sometimes big. To keep it in a special all-mazes pages like now is not perfect but at least it allows for the "common" part to not be duplicated all over.
    We could use a sub-page just for this but it might be an overkill or we could put it in the existing /specific sub-pages: It would requires to change a few labels and it would be slightly weird as I think corpses and farplane would remain in the main page but it would be practical. And in a way it can be "defended" as being gumball specific too thanks to Great Detective

    Thriefty:How about we put something like this below every Maze Cave: "See God of Thieves Items#Adventurer's Forest for items obtainable using God of Thieves Title." This is basically what is already done in Adventurer's Forest page.
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